World Shogi Forum

World Shogi Forum > 81Dojo in General > 81Dojo .kif format

81Dojo .kif format
kmullin (1100) 2017-03-08 03:30
Hi.

The format used by 81Dojo for .kif file types seems to be misspecified, and, therefore, can't be used as is (without modification) for use in some shogi software. Specifically, I cannot use 81Dojo .kif files with the Mac OS X software 将棋ぶらうざQ. The problems are two things:

[1] 
The file cannot be read with the current time recording as 

( 0:5/)

However, once you add '0:00:00' before the closed parenthesis, then this can be read by 将棋ぶらうざQ. For example:

( 0:5/0:00:00)

[2]
The second thing is the text encoding. 81Dojo uses the UTF-8 encoding. This is actually good in theory (because it supports thousands of language encodings). However, in practice, lots of Japanese software seems to use Shift-JIS instead. And, that seems to be standard? So, sometimes one has to tell the software to read it as UTF-8. Well, it's an inconvenience and not really a problem unlike [1] above where every .kif file has to be modified.
コメントを投稿するにはログインして下さい
5: kmullin (1100) 2017-10-06 17:28
Also, I do note that Shogidokoro will read & write in UTF-8. So, it's all around the best program in this area. It also seems to be able to read most everything including the western .psn format.

(And, it also runs on a Mac with Wine+Mono unlike ShogiGUI. So, it beats all others in my estimation.)
4: kmullin (1100) 2017-10-06 17:25
I guess it's just another instance of no standard.

You might also try to convert it with the Shogi Playground tool (http://play.mogproject.com/) via Manage > copy&paste into the text box > Load > Save to File/Clipboard. Still it's a lot clicks no matter what...

Never tried WhaleWatcher. Looks a bit gaudy. I wonder if i can run it on a Mac.
3: KishiNitori (1031) 2017-10-06 17:04
The KIF files I download off of here can't be run on the shogi program WhaleWatcher. Every time I download a kif off of here I need to open it on shogidokoro and save it (as the same name, replacing the original file), without actually making any changes, before it runs on WhaleWatcher.
2: kmullin (1100) 2017-03-09 04:53
Yes, I was assuming that there was a specification in practice (de facto). If there is total lack of standardization, then even that is not true.

Shogi Browser Q (将棋ぶらうざQ) is like ShogiGUI in that it can open both Shift_JIS and UTF8 encodings but only save as Shift_JIS. However, I guess it differs from ShogiGUI in that it can open files in UTF8 with a file extension .kif or any arbitrary .xyzabc extension (so, no .kifu restriction).

Well, it would be nice if everyone attempted to standardize these things...
1: Berni314 (1694) 2017-03-09 01:26
Hi kmullin,

your words are only partly true: you wrote "misspecified", so I ask, where I can found the specification?

I'm not sure, but I guess the KIF-format was created by the author of Kifu for Windows.
Indeed, he used Shift_JIS encoding and the file extension is "kif".
(Much) later he added also UTF8 support to his program.
I've made some investigation and noticed, that Kifu for Windows uses the file extension "kifu" for UTF8, while "kif" still stays in Shift_JIS!!!
FURTHERMORE, the file start with the following line:
#KIF version=2.0 encoding=UTF-8
(The same line, also kif files from 81dojo starts!)

Kifu for Windows can load files from 81dojo, so I like to say, they are right VERSION 2 (!!!) kif-files (but maybe should be renamed to "kifu"?).

It's obvious, that older programs may not be able to read files of newer specification.
As time goes by ...

So maybe the right question will be, why/if there is the need of V2-kif, while they are looking very similar to V1-kif?
True, the whole-thinking-time can be omited, because it's redundant, but is it really worth to save such few bytes for the risc of older programs can't load it?

BCM

このページは81道場のデータ管理・閲覧用の「Webシステム」です。対局用アプリはサイトのトップページ(https://81dojo.com/jp)の「道場入口」より起動して下さい。